Comments on: UI Widgets… oh for something pure Grails http://www.anyware.co.uk/2005/2009/01/06/ui-widgets-oh-for-something-pure-grails/ Grails developer/consultant Mon, 08 Mar 2010 21:39:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Paul Wallace http://www.anyware.co.uk/2005/2009/01/06/ui-widgets-oh-for-something-pure-grails/comment-page-1/#comment-115387 Paul Wallace Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:08:38 +0000 http://www.anyware.co.uk/2005/?p=377#comment-115387 Hi Marc. Hope all is well with you. I have a more fundamental gripe with the whole web UI paradigm. There are too many disjointed technologies. HTML for content and layout; CSS for style and positioning; javascript for dynamic behaviour; and then proprietary apis for plugins etc. Its a lot of mental mapping. We have solved the Object Relational disjoin with the OR Mapper technologies. I'm wondering if any of the new RIA technologies will give a single approach for the web that we have for the desktop with the likes of Swing. Hi Marc.
Hope all is well with you.
I have a more fundamental gripe with the whole web UI paradigm. There are too many disjointed technologies. HTML for content and layout; CSS for style and positioning; javascript for dynamic behaviour; and then proprietary apis for plugins etc. Its a lot of mental mapping.
We have solved the Object Relational disjoin with the OR Mapper technologies.
I’m wondering if any of the new RIA technologies will give a single approach for the web that we have for the desktop with the likes of Swing.

]]> By: Matthew Taylor http://www.anyware.co.uk/2005/2009/01/06/ui-widgets-oh-for-something-pure-grails/comment-page-1/#comment-113851 Matthew Taylor Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:08:46 +0000 http://www.anyware.co.uk/2005/?p=377#comment-113851 Marc, I started a ranting comment in response to this yesterday morning, but when I got to the point where I was creating a diagram I thought I was better off writing a blog post. It became something that really is not directed at you, but just a collection of my opinions of JavaScript and the rich UI. But I think it's still on-subject: http://weblog.dangertree.net/2009/01/12/ui-developers-learn-javascript Marc, I started a ranting comment in response to this yesterday morning, but when I got to the point where I was creating a diagram I thought I was better off writing a blog post. It became something that really is not directed at you, but just a collection of my opinions of JavaScript and the rich UI. But I think it’s still on-subject: http://weblog.dangertree.net/2009/01/12/ui-developers-learn-javascript

]]> By: radu brehar http://www.anyware.co.uk/2005/2009/01/06/ui-widgets-oh-for-something-pure-grails/comment-page-1/#comment-113256 radu brehar Sat, 10 Jan 2009 22:00:49 +0000 http://www.anyware.co.uk/2005/?p=377#comment-113256 It would be great to use the jquery framework, as it has a serious (and increasing) set of UI widgets. The UI of the jquery was part of the jquery core, but now it is a separate framework, stable release. it has a great themeing plugin that integrates perfectly with the UI. You can change your UI design in a minute by creating a new theme and replacing just a css in your app. If you just take a look at http://ui.jquery.com/themeroller you realize the possibilities. Hope Grails will make the right choice of choosing jquery UI. It would be great to use the jquery framework, as it has a serious (and increasing) set of UI widgets. The UI of the jquery was part of the jquery core, but now it is a separate framework, stable release.
it has a great themeing plugin that integrates perfectly with the UI. You can change your UI design in a minute by creating a new theme and replacing just a css in your app.
If you just take a look at http://ui.jquery.com/themeroller you realize the possibilities.
Hope Grails will make the right choice of choosing jquery UI.

]]> By: Andreas Arledal http://www.anyware.co.uk/2005/2009/01/06/ui-widgets-oh-for-something-pure-grails/comment-page-1/#comment-112019 Andreas Arledal Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:51:51 +0000 http://www.anyware.co.uk/2005/?p=377#comment-112019 I totally agree with you Marc. I myself came to Grails via Rails and I've done quite a lot of javascripting. I think the big problem is that "back-end" developers don't take front-end code seriously enough. I mean most of us care about the code we write and the quality of frameworks and code generated by them. This doesn't seem to go for front-end code. This didn't use to be a big problem, but nowadays when more and more applications runs in a browser the quality of front end code plays a big role in an application. If AJAX-functionality and alike are a part of the application, it also need to be a part of the rest of the development process. I really believe that the dividing between front-end and back-end is a bad thing when it comes to application behaviour. Regarding UI Widgets in Grails, Rails and other similar frameworks I haven't seen anyone that generates code that Is unobtrousive and using best practices. Instead most of them generates quite bad code, for example almost everyone I've seen uses the onclick attribute instead of event listeners. What I would really suggest is that people start to use the javascript frameworks directly instead of convenience methods that's provided by the back-end framework. Most of the api's are really easy. You will get better controll over what's generated and the behaviour. Of course you shouldn't invent the wheel again, choose a library that is modular and has plugins that can do what you need it to do. I totally agree with you Marc. I myself came to Grails via Rails and I’ve done quite a lot of javascripting.

I think the big problem is that “back-end” developers don’t take front-end code seriously enough. I mean most of us care about the code we write and the quality of frameworks and code generated by them. This doesn’t seem to go for front-end code.

This didn’t use to be a big problem, but nowadays when more and more applications runs in a browser the quality of front end code plays a big role in an application. If AJAX-functionality and alike are a part of the application, it also need to be a part of the rest of the development process. I really believe that the dividing between front-end and back-end is a bad thing when it comes to application behaviour.

Regarding UI Widgets in Grails, Rails and other similar frameworks I haven’t seen anyone that generates code that Is unobtrousive and using best practices. Instead most of them generates quite bad code, for example almost everyone I’ve seen uses the onclick attribute instead of event listeners.

What I would really suggest is that people start to use the javascript frameworks directly instead of convenience methods that’s provided by the back-end framework. Most of the api’s are really easy. You will get better controll over what’s generated and the behaviour. Of course you shouldn’t invent the wheel again, choose a library that is modular and has plugins that can do what you need it to do.

]]> By: Johnny Vanhentenryk http://www.anyware.co.uk/2005/2009/01/06/ui-widgets-oh-for-something-pure-grails/comment-page-1/#comment-111965 Johnny Vanhentenryk Tue, 06 Jan 2009 16:36:42 +0000 http://www.anyware.co.uk/2005/?p=377#comment-111965 Marc, I absolutely agree with you on the importance of a good-looking UI. Question is if that's the responsibility of the Grails-team. If a super sexy library comes out in the future, a plugin would allow us to use it and in the meanwhile, Grails will grow with features that help us all (also the RAD-people). Marc,

I absolutely agree with you on the importance of a good-looking UI.
Question is if that’s the responsibility of the Grails-team. If a super sexy library comes out in the future, a plugin would allow us to use it and in the meanwhile, Grails will grow with features that help us all (also the RAD-people).

]]> By: Marc Palmer http://www.anyware.co.uk/2005/2009/01/06/ui-widgets-oh-for-something-pure-grails/comment-page-1/#comment-111905 Marc Palmer Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:01:38 +0000 http://www.anyware.co.uk/2005/?p=377#comment-111905 Yes definitely! Your learning curve when you reach outside core grails may be a bit steeper, but the grails-user mailing list is VERY friendly and helpful. The benefit is that Grails apps can use any Java code seamlessly which means there are plugins and code out there to do everything under the sun, and this is mature stuff usually :) Yes definitely! Your learning curve when you reach outside core grails may be a bit steeper, but the grails-user mailing list is VERY friendly and helpful. The benefit is that Grails apps can use any Java code seamlessly which means there are plugins and code out there to do everything under the sun, and this is mature stuff usually :)

]]> By: nic Rosental http://www.anyware.co.uk/2005/2009/01/06/ui-widgets-oh-for-something-pure-grails/comment-page-1/#comment-111904 nic Rosental Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:30:22 +0000 http://www.anyware.co.uk/2005/?p=377#comment-111904 Thanks for the info. Would you recommend Grails for non-Java developers? Thanks for the info. Would you recommend Grails for non-Java developers?

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